Thanks as always for composing such a deeply truthful piece that illustrates our common dreams and eschews temptation to sink to lower reasoning. I never know how you arrive in these places, and stick to it long enough to see a thought to its wholesome end.
Thank you Helen. What a profoundly depressing time we are living in. The reactions of X are even more depressing. I don't know how we restore sanity, but we must try.
I'll absolutely agree that this should not be an excuse to make this an issue of ''the left'' as a whole. I think it has been clear for a long time for many that there is a small, insane portion of the left (as there is in the right) from whom these things come from. The idea that "words are violence" (as many who are justifying this seem to believe) is profoundly despicable. That someone could be so unbelievably weak and pathetic that they believe words they don't like are the same as actual violence is baffling. And this isn't exclusive to the left by any means, even if the slogan might be.
At some point, when a movement tells us again and again that they are not willing to engage in conversation and that they are not only willing but eager to use violence as a response, we should probably listen. If you insist that that's the only language you speak, you won't find a lot of sympathy when someone speaks back.
As you put it: "The person who took away that right by taking away a young man’s life is the enemy of us all". and I would emphasize "enemy". Not opponent. Not adversary. Enemy. Extending any form of good will to people like that is idiotic and suicidal. I understand this makes it even more important to not generalize to broad categories.
I've decided no longer to be a liberal and become a fascist, there's no other way to stop leftist violence. Charlie was a moderate voice and it's become clear leftists are here to wipe us all out. Leftism is the idea that the founding fathers were White supremacist racists so the entire Constitution is obsolete as they see them as evil men.
Liberalism won't save us just like Conservatism won't.
Sadly, we have a list of over 30,000 people who have mocked that young man's death and mocking his widow and children, we are in a serious war.
I never grew up wanting to hate anyone, and I still pray everyone on this planet repents and turns to Jesus. I don't want to harm anyone either, I just want a common sense fascist government to stop crime for once, and that's now millions of us, as Charlie was a moderate campus voice and he's gone now, which has proven talking to these psychopaths doesn't accomplish anything, they want us dead and we won't lay down and be victims without a fight. If they are antifa, we are fascists, only 2 sides really.
You can very well do something about it without supporting authoritarianism. Because it just does not work. At all. There's absolutely zero reason to think this is different than the many times it's been tried in history. It can't be used as a means to an end, as a power that is able to be directed for good, for a very simple reason: it attracts people who do not give a fuck about that. And once they're at the seat of power, there's not much you can do about it. There's no way to have a common sense fascist government by its very nature. Same problem that there was with communism, with which it shares a lot of similarities. The answer does not lie in government.
It's also healthy to remember the dead internet ''theory'' (the quotes are there because its pretty much a reality already): so, SO much of the internet now is bots. And you can't tell the difference. That one comment calling for more violence in the face of this? Maybe made by an actual human. The 20k likes it gets? It'd be surprising if more than 30% were actual people.
You also don't need to grasp onto a new label, and adopt all that comes with it, just to make exceptions to your beliefs. Or to change them, for that matter. It's okay to be whatever you consider to be liberal, but listen, believe and call for action when someone says they are willing and eager to act violently.
While it is true that many of these imbeciles cannot be persuaded, Kirk's death has also been met with a whole lot of videos from people saying this was their breaking point and they can no longer be on the left. That the reaction to this made it so, in their words, ''they're never voting democrat again". Because the truth is, this type of behaviour eats their own.
Helen, as someone strongly identified with conservative positions, I subscribe to a number of blogs to hear opposing views. I was sickened at one yesterday, shortly after Charlie's murder (assassination?) that had an"it's wrong, BUT...BOTH SIDES...etc." tone. My hope was that the author couldn't sleep last night for shame at what he wrote, even though his wasn't the gleeful chortling of others.
Thank you for articulating your views that can actually be helpful. It soothed my soul to read your words this morning.
John, thanks for your patience. Like everyone else, my algorithms tend to send me to Substacks with which I would agree. I'm sure there are many out there to choose from that differ from my thinking. These are two I have found but I haven't carefully curated them, just randomly found them.
1. Mike Brock from Notes from The Circus - his postings -not heinously celebrating Charlie's death, but sounding rational and thoughtful - and arrogant and narrow-minded and tone deaf - have made me feel ill.
2. Joe Klein from Sanity Clause.
I'd love to hear suggestions from other people too.
Thank you. I am a life long progressive in the U.S., very much in the un-woke camp. I have been stunned by friends who have stated that "this shooting was tragic, but... " I've actually confronted one and we have come to a kind of consensus. Another is on the irrational side, I am trying to decide if contradicting him will do any good. I am far from a fan of Trump etc., but killing (also attacking, name-calling, shouting down, etc.) someone you disagree with is a sign of weakness and not strength. And such actions are simply wrong. I am heartened to see how many progressives have condemned this shooting with no other comment, but we need to figure out how to deal with the others. Keep up the great work and have a great day.
I don't know. Maybe if I have to call myself something I'm something of a social democrat with strong environmental tendencies who also promotes critical thinking and skepticism. In a sense I come more from ethics than ideology, although I was very ideological at one time. I am certainly not into post-modern "woke" thinking.
Indeed not. In fact many of us consider many of the woke to base themselves on the kinds of stereotypes that we have aways struggled against, as well as being anti-intellectual. I could go on, have a good day.
I had a question about terminology. What is an acceptable term for what conservatives would call a woke activist (social justice warrior)? Maybe simply woke-left? Previously I thought the acceptable term was progressive, but now I realize that probably doesn’t work since you consider yourself a progressive.
I probably lean a bit more to the right than you but I always find your reasoning extraordinary level headed. That’s not just soothing at a time like this - it is vital!
I’ve seen some left leaning people I’m friends with on Facebook condemn the murder (in some cases with caveats, pointing comments Kirk had made about some deaths being the cost of the right to bear arms and not having sympathy for people). What really gets me are the ones who are condemning political violence today but were perfectly fine with the “punch a Nazi” trend from a few years ago, or political violence in form of protests that set fire to cities in 2020.
It's interesting that the illiberal left is carrying on, as usual, about what a monster Kirk was, while liberals like yourself defend his free speech rights even when you didn't much agree with him. For all the lefty hysterics justifying the murder because Kirk was a so-called 'fascist', there's nothing more fascist than killing a man because you don't like what he says. Just like that dude years ago with the bad combover and goofy little mustache.
Thank you so much for this! I have read articles by others who have condemned the violence, but still had to get their dig at Mr Kirk. That is simply not helpful. Yours was beautifully stated … you disagreed with him and left it at that.
You always thread this needle so well. I hope that people will hear your message.
Thanks as always for composing such a deeply truthful piece that illustrates our common dreams and eschews temptation to sink to lower reasoning. I never know how you arrive in these places, and stick to it long enough to see a thought to its wholesome end.
Thank you Helen. What a profoundly depressing time we are living in. The reactions of X are even more depressing. I don't know how we restore sanity, but we must try.
I'll absolutely agree that this should not be an excuse to make this an issue of ''the left'' as a whole. I think it has been clear for a long time for many that there is a small, insane portion of the left (as there is in the right) from whom these things come from. The idea that "words are violence" (as many who are justifying this seem to believe) is profoundly despicable. That someone could be so unbelievably weak and pathetic that they believe words they don't like are the same as actual violence is baffling. And this isn't exclusive to the left by any means, even if the slogan might be.
At some point, when a movement tells us again and again that they are not willing to engage in conversation and that they are not only willing but eager to use violence as a response, we should probably listen. If you insist that that's the only language you speak, you won't find a lot of sympathy when someone speaks back.
As you put it: "The person who took away that right by taking away a young man’s life is the enemy of us all". and I would emphasize "enemy". Not opponent. Not adversary. Enemy. Extending any form of good will to people like that is idiotic and suicidal. I understand this makes it even more important to not generalize to broad categories.
I've decided no longer to be a liberal and become a fascist, there's no other way to stop leftist violence. Charlie was a moderate voice and it's become clear leftists are here to wipe us all out. Leftism is the idea that the founding fathers were White supremacist racists so the entire Constitution is obsolete as they see them as evil men.
Liberalism won't save us just like Conservatism won't.
Sadly, we have a list of over 30,000 people who have mocked that young man's death and mocking his widow and children, we are in a serious war.
https://www.charliesmurderers.com/
I never grew up wanting to hate anyone, and I still pray everyone on this planet repents and turns to Jesus. I don't want to harm anyone either, I just want a common sense fascist government to stop crime for once, and that's now millions of us, as Charlie was a moderate campus voice and he's gone now, which has proven talking to these psychopaths doesn't accomplish anything, they want us dead and we won't lay down and be victims without a fight. If they are antifa, we are fascists, only 2 sides really.
You can very well do something about it without supporting authoritarianism. Because it just does not work. At all. There's absolutely zero reason to think this is different than the many times it's been tried in history. It can't be used as a means to an end, as a power that is able to be directed for good, for a very simple reason: it attracts people who do not give a fuck about that. And once they're at the seat of power, there's not much you can do about it. There's no way to have a common sense fascist government by its very nature. Same problem that there was with communism, with which it shares a lot of similarities. The answer does not lie in government.
It's also healthy to remember the dead internet ''theory'' (the quotes are there because its pretty much a reality already): so, SO much of the internet now is bots. And you can't tell the difference. That one comment calling for more violence in the face of this? Maybe made by an actual human. The 20k likes it gets? It'd be surprising if more than 30% were actual people.
You also don't need to grasp onto a new label, and adopt all that comes with it, just to make exceptions to your beliefs. Or to change them, for that matter. It's okay to be whatever you consider to be liberal, but listen, believe and call for action when someone says they are willing and eager to act violently.
While it is true that many of these imbeciles cannot be persuaded, Kirk's death has also been met with a whole lot of videos from people saying this was their breaking point and they can no longer be on the left. That the reaction to this made it so, in their words, ''they're never voting democrat again". Because the truth is, this type of behaviour eats their own.
Helen, as someone strongly identified with conservative positions, I subscribe to a number of blogs to hear opposing views. I was sickened at one yesterday, shortly after Charlie's murder (assassination?) that had an"it's wrong, BUT...BOTH SIDES...etc." tone. My hope was that the author couldn't sleep last night for shame at what he wrote, even though his wasn't the gleeful chortling of others.
Thank you for articulating your views that can actually be helpful. It soothed my soul to read your words this morning.
Hi, I’d also like to hear opposing views, can you recommend a few?
John, my day is packed, but I appreciate your question. I hope to get back to you in the next few days.
John, thanks for your patience. Like everyone else, my algorithms tend to send me to Substacks with which I would agree. I'm sure there are many out there to choose from that differ from my thinking. These are two I have found but I haven't carefully curated them, just randomly found them.
1. Mike Brock from Notes from The Circus - his postings -not heinously celebrating Charlie's death, but sounding rational and thoughtful - and arrogant and narrow-minded and tone deaf - have made me feel ill.
2. Joe Klein from Sanity Clause.
I'd love to hear suggestions from other people too.
Thank you. I am a life long progressive in the U.S., very much in the un-woke camp. I have been stunned by friends who have stated that "this shooting was tragic, but... " I've actually confronted one and we have come to a kind of consensus. Another is on the irrational side, I am trying to decide if contradicting him will do any good. I am far from a fan of Trump etc., but killing (also attacking, name-calling, shouting down, etc.) someone you disagree with is a sign of weakness and not strength. And such actions are simply wrong. I am heartened to see how many progressives have condemned this shooting with no other comment, but we need to figure out how to deal with the others. Keep up the great work and have a great day.
Well said, Paul.
Thank you!
Do you feel ‘progressive’ is the same as center-left or moderate liberal?
I don't know. Maybe if I have to call myself something I'm something of a social democrat with strong environmental tendencies who also promotes critical thinking and skepticism. In a sense I come more from ethics than ideology, although I was very ideological at one time. I am certainly not into post-modern "woke" thinking.
Ok, I now see how progressive isn’t synonymous with woke-left
Indeed not. In fact many of us consider many of the woke to base themselves on the kinds of stereotypes that we have aways struggled against, as well as being anti-intellectual. I could go on, have a good day.
I had a question about terminology. What is an acceptable term for what conservatives would call a woke activist (social justice warrior)? Maybe simply woke-left? Previously I thought the acceptable term was progressive, but now I realize that probably doesn’t work since you consider yourself a progressive.
Critical Social Justice activists is the most accurate and self-claimed term.
As usual, Helen Pluckrose writes with reason, compassion, and the essence of true liberalism. If only more people did likewise.
I probably lean a bit more to the right than you but I always find your reasoning extraordinary level headed. That’s not just soothing at a time like this - it is vital!
I’ve seen some left leaning people I’m friends with on Facebook condemn the murder (in some cases with caveats, pointing comments Kirk had made about some deaths being the cost of the right to bear arms and not having sympathy for people). What really gets me are the ones who are condemning political violence today but were perfectly fine with the “punch a Nazi” trend from a few years ago, or political violence in form of protests that set fire to cities in 2020.
There’s hypocrisy to be found everywhere on this.
Reading the comments on BuzzFeed was profoundly depressing.
Great essay.
Well said Helen. “when will we ever Learn”.
Thank you for this. Really.
It's interesting that the illiberal left is carrying on, as usual, about what a monster Kirk was, while liberals like yourself defend his free speech rights even when you didn't much agree with him. For all the lefty hysterics justifying the murder because Kirk was a so-called 'fascist', there's nothing more fascist than killing a man because you don't like what he says. Just like that dude years ago with the bad combover and goofy little mustache.
Helen, are you taking care of yourself in the midst of this shit show? Please do. We need your voice of reason.
I have been! Yesterday, I relapsed, though! I will get back to the taking care of myself
Thank you so much for this! I have read articles by others who have condemned the violence, but still had to get their dig at Mr Kirk. That is simply not helpful. Yours was beautifully stated … you disagreed with him and left it at that.
Another excellent, immensely articulate and perfectly reasoned piece