Related to what you have written: In a recent exchange of comments on social media, a woman said "You are not going to win on this point." I replied that I was not trying to "win", I was trying to determine what was "true" when it came to the contested facts under discussion. Many people view any discussion in which there is disagreement as a contest to be won or lost.
Your article prompted me to think back to our early school years when the teacher called on us in front of the class and the embarrassment and shame that came when we said the wrong answer, or mumbled the terrible words "I don't know." Not knowing is the first step toward knowing lol.
This essay almost makes me want to proclaim easily refuted falsehoods that I might readily concede before all corrections, thereby boosting my reputation enormously 😁
Thank you Helen for helping me understand the “art of lying “. I grew up Catholic and most of my life was spent as a “ Recovering Catholic” trying to avoid hell by telling the truth and nothing but the absolute truth. Ha. I too remember the embarrassment of not knowing answers especially in religion class I appreciate your time and effort in helping me in my “recovery “
"Unscientific man is beset by a deplorable desire to *have been* right. The scientist is distinguished by a desire to *be* right.” — Willard Van Orman Quine
This is a good illustration . For people on social media , the stakes are mostly abstract and symbolic . Likes, reposts , affirmation etc . Status. I believe this distortion causes an unnatural or disproportionate reaction to being wrong . The evolutionary reaction/reward has been transfered to something entirely avatar & abstract while the behavior remains primal . The disconnect or distortion causes a more desperate reaction because the context itself is virtual. Like perpetually reaching for an evasive sense of accomplishment . Maybe .
One factor that surely contributes to this problem, or at least interferes with addressing it, is the ambiguous way people habitually use the phrase "being right," which unfortunately is reflected in your column. Having a need to actually *be* right is an entirely different matter from having a need to be *perceived* as right, and it's only the latter that can account for the irrational behavior we're discussing. In particular, the survival considerations mentioned in the first part of your column are in no way germane to explaining the need to *seem* right.
While I'm sure I'm not perfect, this problem doesn't seem to affect me very much. This probably in part results from being autistic and consequently not particularly caring about social standing, and partly from my parents', as Old Left radicals, having modeled being comfortable with being seen as wrong by much of society.
This feels extremely true, maybe this needs to go on the curriculum along with critical analysis and rhetoric. Maybe they are all part of the same skillset, thinking myself into positions I do not hold and knowing how to argue them. Bloody ancient Rome again, I'm off to build a vomitorium. Thanks for another excellent rant
"The real problem of humanity is the following: We have Paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions and godlike technology. And it is terrifically dangerous, and it is now approaching a point of crisis overall.” E O Wilson
Shame flows from the paleolithic emotional mind, whilst the 'medieval institutions' might include educational norms that still fail to adequately teach the enlightenment values needed to understand it, and other issues such as - how to think, debate, find truth, how the mind works etc; and the media/social trends that often seem hellbent on reversing progress by pushing anti-enlightenment themes such as - emotions are truth, what does not kill you makes you weaker, the world is black and white, people are good or bad. 'God-like powers' include the internet, and the astonishing power of the human brain, which, like a PR or law firm is often used to in fiendishly clever ways to support fiendishly nefarious people & claims.
Related to what you have written: In a recent exchange of comments on social media, a woman said "You are not going to win on this point." I replied that I was not trying to "win", I was trying to determine what was "true" when it came to the contested facts under discussion. Many people view any discussion in which there is disagreement as a contest to be won or lost.
Yes. I had a couple of paragraphs on that too, but it got too long. May make them into their own piece.
Your article prompted me to think back to our early school years when the teacher called on us in front of the class and the embarrassment and shame that came when we said the wrong answer, or mumbled the terrible words "I don't know." Not knowing is the first step toward knowing lol.
This essay almost makes me want to proclaim easily refuted falsehoods that I might readily concede before all corrections, thereby boosting my reputation enormously 😁
Thank you Helen for helping me understand the “art of lying “. I grew up Catholic and most of my life was spent as a “ Recovering Catholic” trying to avoid hell by telling the truth and nothing but the absolute truth. Ha. I too remember the embarrassment of not knowing answers especially in religion class I appreciate your time and effort in helping me in my “recovery “
Well said!!
"Unscientific man is beset by a deplorable desire to *have been* right. The scientist is distinguished by a desire to *be* right.” — Willard Van Orman Quine
This is a good illustration . For people on social media , the stakes are mostly abstract and symbolic . Likes, reposts , affirmation etc . Status. I believe this distortion causes an unnatural or disproportionate reaction to being wrong . The evolutionary reaction/reward has been transfered to something entirely avatar & abstract while the behavior remains primal . The disconnect or distortion causes a more desperate reaction because the context itself is virtual. Like perpetually reaching for an evasive sense of accomplishment . Maybe .
One factor that surely contributes to this problem, or at least interferes with addressing it, is the ambiguous way people habitually use the phrase "being right," which unfortunately is reflected in your column. Having a need to actually *be* right is an entirely different matter from having a need to be *perceived* as right, and it's only the latter that can account for the irrational behavior we're discussing. In particular, the survival considerations mentioned in the first part of your column are in no way germane to explaining the need to *seem* right.
While I'm sure I'm not perfect, this problem doesn't seem to affect me very much. This probably in part results from being autistic and consequently not particularly caring about social standing, and partly from my parents', as Old Left radicals, having modeled being comfortable with being seen as wrong by much of society.
This feels extremely true, maybe this needs to go on the curriculum along with critical analysis and rhetoric. Maybe they are all part of the same skillset, thinking myself into positions I do not hold and knowing how to argue them. Bloody ancient Rome again, I'm off to build a vomitorium. Thanks for another excellent rant
"The real problem of humanity is the following: We have Paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions and godlike technology. And it is terrifically dangerous, and it is now approaching a point of crisis overall.” E O Wilson
Shame flows from the paleolithic emotional mind, whilst the 'medieval institutions' might include educational norms that still fail to adequately teach the enlightenment values needed to understand it, and other issues such as - how to think, debate, find truth, how the mind works etc; and the media/social trends that often seem hellbent on reversing progress by pushing anti-enlightenment themes such as - emotions are truth, what does not kill you makes you weaker, the world is black and white, people are good or bad. 'God-like powers' include the internet, and the astonishing power of the human brain, which, like a PR or law firm is often used to in fiendishly clever ways to support fiendishly nefarious people & claims.