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Abhishek Saha's avatar

You reference Clark and Winegard's 2022 piece but not Clark's very recent paper in the Journal of Controversial Ideas. I think everyone interested in the feminisation debate should read it, and re-read it. https://journalofcontroversialideas.org/download/article/5/2/294/pdf

While much of the paper is factual (and enlightening), Clark does make a normative argument/conclusion towards the end. Let me quote her verbatim:

"Some readers may be inclined to deny the existence of sex differences in values and priorities for fear that these differences could be used to justify the oppression and exclusion of women from positions of power. This approach, however, does no favors to womenbybothignoring women’s explicitly stated preferences and implying that women’s values are inherently problematic. On the contrary, women maintain the human species with their vigilance to danger and their drive to help vulnerable others. Humankind would not exist without women behaving as women do. Other readers might conclude from these differences that women ought to be excluded from positions of influence. This, however, would deny institutions access to roughly half the talent pool and thus would undermine meritocracy and human progress. This perspective also drastically oversimplifies the relationship between female priorities and cultural outcomes. Men and women both have values and behavioral proclivities that can be constructive and destructive in different contexts. Men, with their tendencies toward conquest and sexual and physical violence, do not fit perfectly within modern institutions, and societies for millennia have paid enormous costs to tame aggressive male behavior. Cultures and institutions need to find ways of utilizing the positive aspects of male and female psychology while minimizing any antisocial or counterproductive aspects.

A constructive approach for managing the new cultural value-clash requires identification of recent changes, testing their costs and benefits and collecting relevant data, pursuing the maintenance of values and norms that produce positive outcomes, and challenging those that create costs with intellectual persuasion. By examining both the status quo norms and policies that were based on previously shared male values as well as the new norms and policies that have emerged from an increasingly female set of priorities, institutions could benefit from this period of turmoil in the long run. The policies and norms that can be justified with evidence as best advancing shared goals of scientific and human progress should (eventually) emerge victorious. To realize this optimistic outcome, we need only share a respect for and openness to empirical data. This project will be challenging, but in my view, holds the most promise for facilitating long-term human progress and (relative) social harmony."

I think the last three sentences put it perfectly - I endorse them wholeheardtedly - and as far as I can see, they align with your take.

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Lance Walker's avatar

The solution is not to discriminate against women, it’s to STOP DISCRIMINATING IN FAVOR OF WOMEN.

No innately human trait, feminine or masculine, is intrinsically “toxic”… the qualitative effect of such traits will manifest for good or ill depending upon their specific application. The issue isn’t that women have entered into the sciences, Madam Curie was a PERFECTLY COMPETENT SCIENTIST, the issue is that too many women without the disposition to be scientists have been shoe horned into the profession by people intent upon problematizing natural disparities between males and females.

We need to call for an end to ALL forms of essentialist social engineering agendas… allow fields to be defined by the standards of their purpose, and allow individuals to seek those fields out according to their own interests and aptitudes; and when average group differences inevitably emerge in consequence of people’s choices…. GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

Great article Helen!

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