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Andy's avatar

You mentioned Lutheranism, but total depravity is a Calvinist doctrine (if that's what you were getting at). Just sayin.

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Alexander Beiner's avatar

With a straight line back to Luther’s own metaphysics - I was speaking to the double bind of the idea that you’re depraved but that God’s grace (or in the case of CRT, true freedom from either oppression or your own inherent racism) can never be attained because grace can’t be attained through an act of self-transcendence - I think wokeness is a simulated version of Lutheran thought (among many other things)

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Sam's avatar

Yes, the pendulum only ever hits innocent bystanders. This was the most true of the woke left, destroying all their allies until they could no longer win elections.

What bothers me about the “woke right” term is how quickly the talking classes have been able to identify the “enemy” here. Nothing could get through to the woke left for years.

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Christopher Chang-Duffet's avatar

You seem to be drawing a moral equivalence between the present state of woke left and woke right. I believe this is a false equivalence. The comparisons of anti-woke movmenents between US, Europe, Canada, Austrialia, New Zealand is also missing.. You address the topic from a values perspective, but I don't see you providing a systemic/structural comparison. How you weigh this impacts how we conclude what a reasonable oscillation 'back right' is—for instance, the % of woke faculty and administrators of public sector institutions. The whole concept of values oscillation - ala Clare Graves - is also missed in this discussion. The two value manifestations are in now way objectively equivalent from a systemic perspective. Observations around the Pre Trans Fallacy also seem out of place unless you can observe the relative developmental trajectories of the two polarities. And then you go into the your own sort of Pre trans fallacy stating that Intersectionality didn't go far enough. This is another sort of developmental false equivalence and doesn't actually get to the root of the problem which is the set of apriori one or other branch of culture operates from and that inevitably leads to its downfall. Any building built on quicksand will inevitably sink...

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